EP 18: Building Talent Teams for Hypergrowth with Laura Stapleton

[00:01:08] Adriaan: Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for listening or watching another episode of the Leaders in Talent Podcast. My name is Adriaan Kolff, and I’m the co-founder and CEO of Matchr, and the host of the Leaders in Talent Podcast. Today, my guest is Laura Stapleton. Laura is a seasoned talent executive with over 15 years of experience leading people and talent functions in high-growth tech environments like Bullhorn, Litmus, Miracle, and Engine. Laura is known for designing and executing innovative, scalable strategies that fuel high-performance cultures and drive business results. But the real reason why I invited Laura on this podcast is that I’ve seen firsthand how Laura thrives in these high-growth organizations through our work together at Engine, and I really want to get under the hood. Laura, on how you are successful in these super fast-growing and ever-changing environments — so Laura, welcome to the pod.

[00:02:09] Laura: Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here and am really looking forward to this conversation with you today.

[00:02:15] Adriaan: Great. So Laura, let’s dive in and give our listeners a little bit more context, right? Bullhorn, Litmus, Miracle, and Engine — what are we talking about in terms of fast-growing environments? Give us some numbers in terms of the scale that you’ve seen at these different types of organizations.

[00:02:30] Laura: Sure. I think the bulk of my experience, when I think about high growth, has really been joining organizations — mainly in the SaaS space — that are looking to double, even triple, in size over a very short period of time. My recent experience at Engine, I think, is a great example of that. I joined about three years ago. The company was under 400 people at that point in time and is at 1,000 employees by the end of July 2025. So really fast, in terms of growth. And that growth can look different…

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[00:03:39] Laura: Litmus was a similar story — getting from 75 employees to 250 employees. And I think those foundational elements remain the same regardless of what stage that growth is at.

[00:03:51] Adriaan: Yeah. Amazing. Okay, that’s very good context. Tell me a little bit more in terms of stepping into a role of a VP of Talent at a company like Engine — 400 with the ambition to double — what is your mindset going into that role, and what are maybe some of the frameworks or things that you look at and prepare yourself with, going into those types of roles?

[00:04:15] Laura: Yeah, I think it’s preparing yourself with stabilizing what really matters the most with some of those foundational elements of talent that I think are the consistent building blocks that translate from organization to organization, regardless of industry. But then also being prepared to listen and to shift — like what are the problems that the key stakeholders, mainly the C-suite… what is the CEO trying to solve? What is keeping them up at night? And really making sure that I understand the core root of those problems so that I’m not reacting. So I think it’s that combination of addressing what is most important to them, but stabilizing what I know from my experience as a talent leader — those elements that have to be there right from the beginning.

[00:04:58] Adriaan: So tell me a little bit more about that. Because what I found fascinating — and it’s something that you and I talked about as well during our cooperation — is that dynamic between you and a founder/CEO that might have realistic, but also often maybe unrealistic, expectations in terms of the growth of the business and what you need to hire. How do you do that in your role — managing those expectations?

[00:05:26] Laura: Yeah, I think it’s understanding where the expectations are coming from, right? So it’s making sure that… sometimes there is alignment, or sometimes I think, “Oh wait, we could be shooting higher than that,” right? It really depends on the starting point. Mostly, the expectations are super high, right, if you’re going into a hypergrowth organization. So it’s really understanding: what’s the problem to be solved? I’m a big believer in jobs to be done — what is the job to be done? And then working my way back to make sure that I’m actually solving the right problem. Because I think sometimes what we’ve seen is: “It’s headcount and we have to hire, and we need them in today,” but it’s really understanding, okay, well why? If I know there’s a time-to-fill constraint or a capacity constraint, it’s really understanding — is this an issue that has to do with a product we’re trying to get off the ground? Is there pressure coming in externally, from the board, or something like that, that’s really causing the unrealistic expectations?

And then I think it’s also understanding the trade-offs, right? Because I am a big believer in “How do I get to a yes?” — with any request that’s coming from a founder, CEO, or really anybody, any stakeholder or partner that I’m working with. It’s like, how do we get to a yes? So it’s understanding: are we solving the right problem? And then what are the trade-offs? Because I don’t want to make some sort of assumption or response based on any type of limitations that I may or may not have. For me, it’s, “Well, what would I need to get this done?” Even if my first take is that it’s unrealistic, I’m going to always lead with “I’m going to assume that I could do it,” and then just be really honest with what I would need, what are the trade-offs, and does this actually need to be done, right? If I’m asking for a lot because it’s… I think there’s a lot to unpack in those types of situations — but really fun relationships to walk into with those founder CEOs.

[00:07:14] Adriaan: So tell me about a time — give me an example of a time when you worked with very unrealistic expectations and how you were able to navigate usually pretty strong-headed founders. First, what’s realistic — and how? Yeah. Tell me about an example and how you worked around that situation.

[00:07:33] Laura: Yeah. Gosh, a concrete example of that… I would say hiring is always pretty clear in terms of expectations. So it could be around compensation. Let’s say we want something in a really highly desired space — whether that’s engineering or product, right? We see this a lot. And then you’ll have that perception of, “Okay, we need people that have come from, like, FAANG backgrounds,” but then our comp is totally misaligned. So it comes down to understanding the why. And I’ve always solved that by saying, “I’ll get the candidate in front of you,” right? I’m gonna show you the price tag that comes with that — if that is, in fact, the challenge that we want to face. But sometimes even too with those candidates, I think it’s really creating that well-rounded picture.

Because a lot of the time, if there’s an unrealistic expectation as it relates to talent, there’s usually a lack of context or a lack of data, right? This person clearly doesn’t have the full story if I’m sensing misalignment. So I have to give them the full story with actual proof. So it is showing that: hey, maybe that background doesn’t even work here, because those businesses are structured completely differently than how we’re structured, or they’re resourced very differently than how we are resourced.

So it’s actually, I think, putting both options in front. It always comes down to me to options. If I meet something like that with just disagreement — that’s gonna show up as resistance. Whereas if I come back with optionality — now this is showing up as partnership. I’m not telling you “no,” or “I can’t do this.” I’m telling you, “Hey, here’s exactly what you’re asking for,” goes back to what I just said. “Here are all those trade-offs. Here’s option B, which I think is really intriguing for X, Y reason.” And sometimes there’s gotta be a third door as well in that mix.

But I think it’s always creating optionality and that whole mindset of “let me get to a yes,” but also making sure that you have all the context and data. Because the “yes” could be different than what you originally thought it was going to be, but we reach it in a place that is fully aligned. And it’s always operating with the best interest of the business, right? And coming from that place, I think, has really helped me navigate some of those talent-specific — but also broader — challenges that have come up.

[00:09:51] Adriaan: And how do you do that with your team, right? Because on the one hand, you have the C-suite — especially in high-growth environments, nobody has time — and your team’s under a lot of pressure to deliver. How do you balance those expectations from the C-suite versus what’s realistic of you to request from your team? Tell me about that dynamic and how you translate this back to your team.

[00:10:14] Laura: Yeah, I think it comes from very clear expectations right from the beginning. So it’s building a team that can actually withstand the pressure that is going to exist internally. And being, I think, super honest about what that looks like. And this really comes down to, I think, not only the talent team or a people team, but any department in the organization. Which is why I think things like a really strong employee value proposition, really strong — whether that’s culture memo, values, DNA, however you want to frame it — is really critical. And I think being super unapologetic about the reality of the environment that you’re in.

[00:10:50] Adriaan: Tell me a little bit more. Give me the juicy details. What does that look like? Because I know it’s not for everyone.

[00:10:55] Laura: Right. No, it’s not for everyone. At Engine, we had the tagline of “We’re not for everyone, but we might be for you,” because some people love that hypergrowth — myself included — of “I wanna see how fast I can run and then the next day wake up and see if I can… is there any more juice in there to squeeze?” And I think a lot of people are programmed like that, which is great. But there are other people — that is not for them. And so the last thing I would ever want to do is sugarcoat the reality of a situation, even if it’s not our ideal state. If we’re like, “Hey, this is how we’re operating right now. This is not how we’re going to operate forever, but it’s like this today,” then I need to know that you can be comfortable in that type of environment today — versus I’m sugarcoating for what I think future state will be or what I think you are going to digest better. And then you start and you’re like, “Wait, this does not work for my life,” right?

I don’t believe in work-life balance. I’m a work-life integration person. We have one life. Most of us work. And that’s the beginning and end of it. And so it’s gotta work. And if we pretend like it’s something that it’s not, and then it doesn’t work — I’m looking at attrition before the person’s even gotten through the door.

[00:12:08] Adriaan: Yeah. Is this something that you learned over time, or is this something that you started to do right from the get-go?

[00:12:15] Laura: Yeah, I think I’ve definitely learned it over time through my own experiences. I really like people to shoot me super straight. I’m a mom of three, so as a working mom myself — right — I want to run fast, and that incorporates a lot of different things. And I’m going to sign up for the challenging task. I couldn’t begin to tell you how many hours a week I work. I joke that work is… I work, and work is also my hobby. But I like to know — I want to know exactly what I’m signing up for so that I can then choose: how am I managing the rest of it to make sure that my life is structured in a way that’s going to position me and my family to be successful?

And success looks like a lot of different things for different people. So I think it’s like learning — you just never want to be surprised. And what I loved about it is, sometimes the organization — they’re gonna tell you it’s fast — it’s going to feel faster than even how you’re internalizing it in most situations. And so, being able to mentally prepare for that, I think, is great — versus the opposite of: you get in, and you’re like, “Oh, this is not what I thought it was going to be.”

Or on the flip side of that — some organizations, if you’re coming from an environment that’s really fast, and they’re telling you, “Hey, we need this business to run faster, which is why you’re joining,” — but it’s not running that fast today — that also is very helpful to know so that you can get your arms around, “Okay, this pace is going to feel different, and I have to manage my expectations and make sure that I show up in a way that’s going to drive that change — but also be digestible by the organization that is already in place today.”

So I think just managing expectations is so critical. And it really sets that foundation of trust within the organization that allows for that space to fail fast, try new things — all the things that most companies are talking about. But if you feel like you’ve been misled right off the rip, it’s really hard to establish that trust later.

[00:14:11] Adriaan: And how do you build that performance culture into your team, right? How do you get people really to pick up the speed — something they might not even have deemed possible? What are some of the things that you help cultivate within your teams?

[00:14:30] Laura: Yeah, it starts with defining what that even means. What is “fast,” right? What do I think fast is, and is that different from what you think fast is? What are the clear expectations? I think these come down to those foundational elements that are so important to establish while you’re trying to solve all the problems of the day. Because if the team’s unclear on their goals — that saying, “If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it” — you’re missing the mark there in and of itself.

So making sure that the expectations are super clear, that we know what fast is. And if we’re trying to solve for — everybody wants their hire yesterday — like, we all know that yesterday is not possible. But what is possible? And that’s looking at where in the process can we tighten things up so that we move that much faster? If it’s a time-to-fill, for example, you’re looking at time in stage or responsiveness — how do we manage those things?

So I think it’s being super clear on what “fast” looks like, having the data accessible to them — because if that team is not looking at the data on a daily basis themselves, they’re not going to be in the mindset of, “Am I actually getting better?” ‘Cause it probably feels faster — “I feel like I’m working hard.” Like, I can feel like anything, right? But what is the reality of how this is shaking out in their daily rituals and best practices? And then how is that translating into results?

And I think it’s also showing — internal champions are huge. I love investing in talent that is willing to get on some sort of crazy bus with me and try to do things that, at first glance, they’re like, “Ooh, that’s not possible.” And then it’s sharing the results. And sometimes the results are like, “Yeah, it wasn’t right.” Like, we haven’t figured it out yet and we’re continuing to iterate and stretch and push. But then if you’re showing — no, you can get that profile that we never thought we’d land, and you can fill X, Y, Z role in under 30 days…

We had this mentality — and this is a recent example — of “Well, it takes 60 days to fill a director role,” which, I would’ve told you last year, was not possible. And then it’s 60 days and I’m like, “Well wait — we can do that in a way shorter timeframe.” And then you have that example of, “Oh wow, here’s a director-level role that was filled in 30 days.” And it’s making sure that everybody is aware of that — because now they have the proof, right? It comes back to the facts. If this person can do it, we have seen that it is possible. And then it’s breaking it down, step by step: what made that possible? And how do we create that consistency in terms of workflow that is going to make that outcome more likely in our other use cases across the board?

[00:17:08] Adriaan: Is that something you constantly push your team on, in terms of “Hey, where can we do 1% more?” Right? It’s the famous example of the British cycling team that said, “Every day, we’re going to improve 1%,” right? But 1% — if you stack 1%s up — you’re going to be exponentially growing by the end of the year. Is that something you are constantly looking at with your team? Sort of “Where can we do a little bit more?” “Where can we go faster?” Is that the type of mentality that comes into play?

[00:17:37] Laura: It does. I would say I still — and I don’t know if this is right or wrong — I give the big audacious goal. I give the “Well, what if the percentage was this?” Right? Wouldn’t that be amazing? I kind of start… I am sort of a vision thinker of “What would that future look like?” And then from there, it’s “What can we do to get closer to that reality?” So I think it’s a combination of…

[00:18:04] Adriaan: …the two, because…

[00:18:04] Laura: …sometimes it can be like — if it’s such a jarring transition from the reality of where we’re at today — but really show them that we can move. We can move with a realistic level of effort from where we’re at to where we want to be through — whether that’s that 1% better every day. But sometimes 1% is not enough and I need more percentages…

[00:18:29] Adriaan: Faster. Right? I love this so much, Laura. I love this so much. I love this. You’re like, “1%? What are you talking about, Adriaan?”

[00:18:35] Laura: We need to get percent…

[00:18:36] Adriaan: …better. We…

[00:18:37] Laura: …want to get there now. But no — and it is. You’ve got to drive that culture and have enough positive reinforcement too. I think that’s really important — making sure that the team feels valued. Because they have to wake up with that. I think they have to be intrinsically motivated to operate in a way that is going to deliver the results, but also feel that sense of team, environment, appreciation, partnership with me. And like, they’re on the journey too. It’s really asking them, “What would this look like?” “How do you think we could approach this?” — versus me coming in saying “Do this and this.” No one’s… they’d be like, “Why would I do that?”

So it’s really making sure that it’s a collaborative process that we go through together as a team. And I also have to be willing to think about things differently — to hear them out if they feel like something that I’m asking for is completely unrealistic — but then solution together. And I have them, the same way that I would manage up, give me some options: “What do you think is possible?” “How are you thinking about this?” And if the reality is we have to run at this — we’re going to do it together, and what should that look like?

So creating this space for co-creation of solutions, I really think, helps drive engagement and allows for people to really operate at that higher level — at that fast pace — consistently over time.

[00:19:55] Adriaan: Hey, you said something interesting, right? You said, “I set these big goals.” Tell me a little bit more about that. What does that look like?

[00:20:08] Laura: It can look like… capacity increases is definitely a big one for us. So if we’re going to try to say, “Hey, we want to double recruiter productivity over the course of a year,” that could be one. Or, “We want 80% of the candidates that we send to a hiring manager — we want the hiring manager to be enthusiastically moving them forward.”

Those are examples of real goals that I have put in place in the past. And then working through — if the recruiter… and I’ll get great pushback on them — like the hiring manager one drove so many great conversations about, “Well, wait a second. Why do you want that, Laura?” They challenge me, right? Like, “Why do I want that?” “Why would I think that’s good?” And then we have a back and forth, and we run at it — but also create the space for what they believe is in the best interest of the business, the role, the stakeholder, and so on and so forth.

[00:20:59] Adriaan: Alright. Tell me about a time or an example where you set this audacious goal — where you were almost like, “Yeah, I don’t know if this is realistic, but let’s just run with it,” right? And you’ve done it. Your team, some individuals surprised you. It’s because you put the bar so high or so much further — people didn’t think they were able to do it, but then surprised themselves because you just put the bar so far ahead that they were just going for it.

[00:21:27] Laura: Yeah, the recruiter capacity is definitely one. The capacity of the team was not aligned to the hiring plan that we had, right? So it’s like the goals of the team were going to have to increase. And it was really showing them — the team size wasn’t going to increase. Especially too with where AI and automation and all that is going. And then also partnerships like the one that we have — it’s like, how can I tackle this hiring plan without telling the business that I need to double the size of my team?

And a lot of it’s “Can I increase recruiter productivity?” So that, I think, was challenging because I’m saying, “Hey, your goals are going up.” And that is always an interesting conversation to have with people — “We’re now expecting and need more of you and from you.” But with that, what was amazing is… I think TA runs a lot like a sales organization. So in this particular instance, we were operating with a commission structure in place as an incentive. And so it was really tailoring that the same way I would a go-to-market commission — where there were accelerators on it. “I’m asking you this, but also, you are going to get comped for it if you can hit some of these accelerators.”

And we had team members hit 200% of their target. So not only did I raise the targets — but then we had people smashing the target. And not everybody, to be clear. It’s one of those things — if you’ve got that plan, you can easily be like, “We’re doubling it because they were the wrong targets to begin with.” And sometimes that happens, right? Especially when you’re new to putting these targets in place. It’s figuring out what “good” looks like. But it was really interesting, because then it came back to that promotion of telling the rest of the team, “Hey, we had people out of a team of 20… three people absolutely crushed their goals. They hit these accelerators.”

And the team — they all have the same comp plan — so they know what the accelerators look like. And that is very motivating to others, because a lot of talent teams are made up of highly competitive individuals. And they want to not only succeed financially, but people just… they want to win. They’re there to win.

[00:21:27] Laura (continued): …and I think that, in that example, we were then able to really look at: okay, what actually made this possible? Is this consistent? Because then I couldn’t go back and say, “Okay, everyone’s doubling,” just because these three people did it. You have to then have enough data points over an extended period of time to say, “Wait, now I can formally shift this.” But I can start forecasting to the business, saying, “Okay, here are the goals, but here is where I’m seeing overachievement,” and manage expectations so that I’m not undershooting.

I really want to be aligned with the business — that we’re going to go for it as a team — but also be realistic. “Here’s where I think, based on this hiring plan, here’s where I need agency spend. Here’s where I need an embedded model. Here’s the resourcing that I need for tools and technology to make it possible to increase the productivity.” So again, anchoring back to the trade-offs — like, we can tackle this, here’s what it’s going to look like in practice. And that overall has been a really successful approach.

[00:24:31] Adriaan: And for you, is this something that always came innately with you — in terms of the drive, the competitiveness, and the hunger? Or is this something that you’ve learned from other leaders you worked for previously, in terms of that push and that competitive edge?

[00:24:50] Laura: Yeah, I think I’m a pretty competitive person by nature. It’s actually funny — I tie it back to even my parenting, like with my kids. I think it shows up more there than it did for me earlier on. I was never super athletic or had any special talents like that, that I think allowed me to drive my competitive edge. So it was really when I started working that I was like, “Oh, this is my sport.”

[00:25:13] Adriaan: Yeah.

[00:25:14] Laura: Here we go. And so I always operated with that mentality of, “This is something that I can have huge impact in, and lead others.” This is where I have found a team environment. But I model how I operate after sports teams. I’m a hockey mom — and what that shows up like in hockey — and I’ll talk a lot about that in terms of saying, “I’m not — I’m a big believer — we are not a family. We are a sports team.”

[00:25:41] Adriaan: So good. Your line…

[00:25:42] Laura: You can drop. You can get benched. The coach can change. You can get cut. They’re gonna bring in new skaters that are better than you — because we’re all here to win. And so that is really, at the end of the day… I think that frame-up has really helped my team because they — I bring my whole self to work and encourage everybody else to do the same — and they’re like, “Oh yeah, that makes sense.” You want to be on the team. We’re on this team because we want to win, and here’s what winning looks like. That, I think, encourages people to show up.

[00:26:14] Adriaan: I love that.

[00:26:15] Laura: Yeah.

[00:26:15] Adriaan: I love that. Is that how you start the year, the quarter — like, “This is how we’re going, this is what we’re doing as a team” — in order to set that kind of purpose and expectation to rally the troops?

[00:26:28] Laura: This is what we’re doing as a business, yeah. It starts with, “What are we doing?” “What are the goals of the organization?” and making sure that the team understands how the business works. Like, how do we make money? What are we doing from a revenue perspective? What are we doing from a product perspective?

And so I think it’s really anchoring them around that overall mission. And then — I love OKR frameworks — because it’s really easy to then structure how our work supports those broader goals. So that’s really how I like to start. And I think getting the team rallied is something that’s super important — and doing that regularly.

Yeah, so even quarterly — I don’t think that’s enough. We’re making sure the team has visibility: “What is being talked about in leadership meetings, at board meetings?” “What are the concerns?” “What are we all trying to do?” That context is worth so much, and it’s really necessary to pull people out of their day-to-day — especially in hybrid or remote environments — to make sure that people… we all choose to log in every day, right? And we all choose how we’re going to show up. So it’s making sure that they feel that connection and that level of motivation, so that they choose to log in and show up and get it done in a way that’s necessary for them to be successful.

So I think establishing that connection — at least monthly — I think is super important. And team meetings, as often as you can create visibility, I think that makes all the difference for people.

[00:27:58] Adriaan: What kind of rituals or team moments do you have to celebrate — to highlight those little moments of “Good candidate,” or “We finally got our first offer in”? Do you have any of those rituals?

[00:28:17] Laura: Yeah, I think it’s funny because it’s going to sound like such a small thing, but a Slack channel that is titled “TA Wins.” And so it’s instant — when a hire is made, the recruiter is posting: “So-and-so hired for this job,” and then they’ll actually post the source. And that’s because we really care about the source — whether we’re trying to drive more inbound candidates or whatever it might be.

And all of leadership is also in the channel. So it’s not just TA. The executive team is in there, and the executive team is very highly engaged in that channel. So often, that channel is blowing up all the time, which is amazing to see. And it’s even highlighting when people are going above and beyond. I can remember there was one Friday evening where three offers came through, and we’re all calling it “Friday Night Lights.” Everyone’s so excited, and these are people choosing to use their Friday night to get these offers in. That creates so much buzz, and it’s really fun to watch.

And I think the engagement from the rest of the business is really important — because I can tell you that you’re great, but your stakeholders have to be showing their appreciation. They’re not necessarily hiring for roles on my team. And that kind of goes back to that connectedness. So, the “TA Wins” Slack channel, I think, is huge.

Having a weekly meeting that’s more of a scoreboard meeting than a “wins” meeting — hopefully there are wins — but we’ve got to be comfortable talking about the losses too. We have to create the space in which we can drive those conversations. I think that’s really important — so getting engagement across the business, celebrating in real time, and then of course having those moments when someone gets their first hire, or their first hire at a different level that was above and beyond. If we gave them a stretch assignment, or if there was a massive rollout in terms of project-based work — or now that AI is in the mix, someone’s really nailing it with some of the AI functionality we’ve layered in — making sure that we’re creating that visibility. Because it feels good, right?

[00:30:45] Adriaan: Yeah.

[00:30:45] Laura: It feels good when I have it. I don’t think you ever progress out of that. And so it’s making sure that we do have that recognition — because it’s really hard, right? And I think we need to have it to make the difficult moments sustainable.

[00:30:58] Adriaan: You mentioned AI — a couple of AI layers. Everyone’s talking about it, right? I almost didn’t want to go there, but now that you mention it — is there anything you can share or are willing to share in terms of what are some of the things that you’ve done that, just from a very pragmatic, practical point of view?

[00:31:14] Laura: Yeah, sure. Some of the ones I think I’ve hit on a lot of — what now feels like the obvious — like note-taking. So, automating the note-taking. We partnered with Metaview on that, which has been super successful for us. And I think, too, what’s tricky as a leader is you don’t want to end up with this Frankenstein onslaught of AI solutions.

So for us, it’s been really leaning in on a few. For inbound candidates — because that obviously is a huge time saver, not having to review all the resumes — we partnered with Covey, which has also been a great partnership. It ensures that of all the applicants, we’re only really paying attention to the 10% that are aligned with exactly what we’re looking for. And those two partnerships, in my experience, have been really successful.

Then I think it’s just staying on top of — obviously using whatever tools are available to you — whether that’s ChatGPT and things like that. There’s just so much that can be done now and automated. So it’s leaning in on that, but paying very close attention to where it’s headed. And I think getting really clear on the stages of AI as we introduce them — making sure that it’s digestible for the team, for the business.

But yeah, I’m excited to see where it goes. And we’re piloting some new things that I think are super interesting. So, yeah — more to come on the AI.

[00:32:26] Adriaan: More to come. More to come. In terms of your own career, right? You’ve seen a variety of different companies. Now, looking back at where you are in your career and what you’ve seen — the growth, etc. — what are some of the key lessons you would tell your younger self, having been in these types of environments when you just started in recruitment?

[00:32:50] Laura: Oh gosh… just hang in there, right?

[00:32:53] Adriaan: Yep.

[00:32:54] Laura: No, I think I would tell myself to focus on operational excellence first.

[00:33:03] Adriaan: Yep.

[00:33:03] Laura: As a competitive, results-oriented person, it’s really easy — especially when you’ve got that great CEO/founder relationship — to be like, “Alright, I’m just going to start to run.” But then you look down and your shoes are untied — like, you trip, right? And so I think it’s really focusing on operational excellence first.

I would put in — if I were building a team from scratch — ops functions first. Like honestly, I feel like I would hire a TA ops person before I hired a recruiter.

[00:33:33] Adriaan: Wow. Okay. So tell me — let’s go a little more in detail, I love this, it’s such a nugget — tell me a little bit more. Let’s pretend you’re building a team from scratch. Why TA ops first, and what are the things that you want to have in place — tying the laces before you start running?

[00:33:48] Laura: Totally. Because if there’s no TA team in place, this means I have a variety of stakeholders that think they know everything there is to know about hiring, recruiting — however they think it should be done. And there’s probably some good in there, but there’s definitely inconsistency, a lack of best practices, and just a lot of context and knowledge that doesn’t exist.

And so I think with ops, it’s like — A: somebody has to run around and figure out what the heck is the state of the state. The vision would be to have an ops person come in, do an audit of what is happening, and then — how are we going to fix this, right?

So I think if you can really lock in those best practices — because all of that work still has to be done — and adding a recruiter into the mix solves some of it, but they get dragged into recruiting. So the impact from an operational excellence perspective is going to be really limited depending on which teams have open roles, what roles are high priority, what’s out to agency, what’s in-house…

Whereas ops — we’re really going to focus on how to do this well. So it’s bringing in an ops person who has very solid experience, who can align on a vision of what this is going to look like — knowing that we’ll iterate, right? Every team is different, and you need to iterate based on the organizations that you’re in. But really get those strong foundational elements right from the beginning.

And then you can scale the TA team to however big it’s going to be — or whatever bots or tech ends up being involved in the future. But I think having that locked in is going to be so important for any organization.

[00:35:22] Adriaan: So good. So good. What are some of the key data points and metrics that you track?

[00:35:28] Laura: There’s a laundry list, but I would say: metrics that matter, obviously.

[00:35:32] Adriaan: Yeah, I know — because that’s often what I see. People measure metrics for the sake of metrics. But then you go into, “But why are you tracking this?” And it’s kind of like… vanity metrics, right?

[00:35:45] Laura: Right. Totally. There are so many metrics that you could look at. I think hiring plan attainment is obviously the biggest one. Again, going back to: what are we here to do, and are we doing it or are we not doing it? That one is the most black-and-white for me.

And then time to fill, right? So it’s not only hiring plan attainment, but it’s how long it’s taking. I’d say measuring the number of P0 roles that I have open at any given time. And P0 roles, I typically define as anything that’s been open for more than 45 days, anything that is director and above, and just sentiment from the business — what are our high priorities?

Then getting really clear on, “Ending a quarter, we only want X percentage of P0 roles to be open.” So making sure we’re really tackling them with the focus they deserve. That’s really important.

The time to fill is obviously a big one — because that matters in terms of forecasting and being able to predict. To the business, to myself, to the team: Can we hit this hiring plan based on the state of the state?

And then looking at the funnel conversions — because again, it’s going to help us understand: from top of funnel, what needs to happen for the hires to become a reality? Then we can start improving it. Even if it’s ugly, I want to see it. I want to know: how many do I need in TA screen today to get to that hire? Even if I don’t like the numbers, I need to know what they are. And then we start working toward: what does great look like? And then: what does 5% a day better look like?

[00:37:10] Adriaan: Yeah. Love it. Love it. Laura, honestly, your energy is contagious. I feel like we could talk much, much longer. But I want to wrap it up here. Laura, this was such a pleasure — speaking to you, and also working together with you. I’m so happy you got some time in your diary to have this conversation with me. What’s the best way for people to connect with you? I assume LinkedIn?

[00:37:35] Laura: Yeah, LinkedIn would be great. And I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this conversation as well — and our partnership. It’s such a pleasure working with you, and I knew this was going to be a conversation I’d thoroughly enjoy. So thank you for having me.

[00:37:46] Adriaan: Awesome. Thank you so much, Laura.